For the first time in 15 years, there’s a new person at the helm of Colorado’s flagship university.
Justin Schwartz officially took the reins as the University of Colorado Boulder’s chancellor at the beginning of July. Schwartz comes to Boulder with a wealth of experience across public institutions of higher education, previously holding leadership positions at North Carolina State University and Pennsylvania State University. He said that background makes him the perfect person to push CU forward.
“I think having lived in a lot of places and experiencing a wide variety of cultures, both various American domestic cultures, but also global cultures really informs the global mission that Boulder is presenting in terms of sustainability and all different aspects of life,” he told CPR News.
His predecessor, outgoing chancellor Philip DiStefano, told Colorado Matters shortly before he left office that Schwartz will inherit the position during a time in which higher education is “under fire nationally, and the value of higher education is being questioned.” And with CU being one of the state’s largest employers and attractors of young talent, many are hoping Schwartz’s vision for the future will guide CU to success.
Schwartz sat down with Colorado Matters shortly after he wrapped up his first week on the job to discuss his qualifications, the challenges he faces, and how he intends to move the university forward.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Paolo Zialcita: First off, you're new to Colorado, completely new to Colorado. I've seen you on the [CU Boulder] Instagram going around Boulder. You've spent most of your career on the East Coast. What drew you to come out west?
Justin Schwartz: So people say this is the most beautiful campus in the country, and I was on a Zoom with a bunch of other university presidents and chancellors today and managed to drop that line in because nobody argues. But really it was what's happening at CU Boulder, right? That was the real pull. You get to a point in your life and you think, "What do I want to do next in my career? What's the big thing I want to accomplish?"
And I just found that the things I want to do just matched exactly what CU Boulder was presenting as its own mission and vision as a campus. And I don't think it's [a] coincidence that the things that Boulder wants to accomplish as a university and as a campus are located in Boulder and in the Rockies and in the mountain West because there's a cultural alliance there between the campus identity and that spirit of Colorado.
PZ: How do you think your experience on the East Coast will inform your work as chancellor here?
JS: I grew up [on the] north side of Chicago and spent some time obviously on K-12 there, undergrad at Illinois, faculty Illinois, some time in Massachusetts, six months in Japan, three months in Livermore, California, and also a number of summer hiking trips based in a small town in Montana going through the Rockies. So I'd like to think that my entire life experiences inform what I do rather than simply the different places I've lived in a more narrow sense.
And I think having lived in so many places provides that view of the mission of a campus like CU Boulder, really trying to genuinely have impact and tackle global challenges. So there's that old phrase of think globally and act locally, but I think we're at a point where for a campus like this, it's yes, think globally, act locally and globally. That shouldn't be one or the other in terms of the impact that we seek. So I think having lived in a lot of places and experiencing a wide variety of cultures, both various American domestic cultures, but also global cultures really informs the global mission that Boulder is presenting in terms of sustainability and all different aspects of life.
PZ: Well, you went down your resume there.
JS: Sorry.
PZ: But you didn’t say exactly where you worked in, you’re a nuclear engineer by trade.
JS: Correct.
PZ: Your career has taken you to Florida State University, North Carolina State University, Penn State University. What motivated you to pursue a career in higher education leadership?
JS: So I do come from an academic background. I like to say I was kind of born into higher ed. Mother, father, stepfather, all academics in vastly different fields. So my father was in material science and engineering. My mother was in special ed and was one of the creators of bringing social emotional learning into special education. My stepfather was [in] psychology and so pretty kind of a diverse background, but when I was a kid, I didn't say, "What do your parents do?" I'd say, "What do your parents teach?" It was just sort of intrinsic.
So there was that piece, and then I went into higher ed because I love the idea of transforming the trajectories of people and impacting the success of the species through the research side. Went into higher ed naturally that way as a family business. Then as I moved up and started accomplishing different goals, every time you could have accomplished a goal, you then start thinking, "Okay, what's next?"
And so 16 fantastic years at FSU, I really enjoyed the things we did there. Started thinking, "Okay, what's next?" And then wasn't sure I wanted to go into leadership or not, but wanted to give it a try. So some days you can say I'm still really just faculty and in this leadership role. Other days, you're a department head working with the vice chancellors for research's office, the dean's office, other department heads thinking more strategically on leadership side.
Got to the point where the things I sort of accomplished when I wanted to do in my unit, it was ready the next step for somebody else. The things I was interested in doing next were always bigger than one department. And I found that when I enlisted the help of my dean, things moved more quickly. So I started thinking, "Okay, maybe I should take that next step." The opportunity at Penn State came, [and] I've always said if you want to accomplish big things, you want to be at a big place.
If you look at all the places you've mentioned and go back further, I've been in state universities since I graduated high school, continuously, other than six months in Japan. Obviously not a state university, but I'd already accepted the position on faculty at Illinois when I went, I basically started with [a] six month leave [at Illinois]. So that part of the mission was always dear to me. Not being dismissive of private schools, but there's something different about the large state university in terms of the ability to truly transform a large population of diverse students from nearby to around the globe.
And then the other thing that comes with a large state university is really the full spectrum and breadth of intellectual diversity in terms of the different disciplines that are represented in the faculty. And so there's no limits to how you can bring groups together intellectually to accomplish bigger things. And so that was always the draw and I think every step of the way I realized, well, one more scale of bringing in a broader disciplinary expertise is really going to help us solve the problem even more. And so it sort of naturally landed me on that path.
PZ: You've only been in the position for a little over a week now, but how's it been? Does anything about the campus, I know there aren't students on campus really right now. Does it stand out to you as different from your previous universities?
JS: So I would say the view from anywhere on campus is outstanding compared to the view of anywhere else I've been in my other universities. Not that the other ones didn't have their own natural beauty, they were very different, but it's pretty hard to compete with this. And I don't want to say the other places were not collegial because I'm not going to answer your question in the comparative sense, but I will say that the welcome I've had here has been just overwhelmingly wonderful.
You can tell there's an enthusiasm at the institution right now that I think in general is in a better place than other higher ed institutions right now, simply because while we all share some common challenges in higher ed in the United States, Boulder's in a much better position than many of our peers. And so anticipation that we're doing great and we're going to make great even greater, it's exciting and I'm really thrilled to be here.
PZ: You alluded to this earlier, but higher education appears to be at a crossroads nationwide. Your predecessor, [Phil DiStefano], told me in May that the value of higher education is "under fire and the value of a higher degree is being questioned." What's your take on this? What challenges are you anticipating as you take this position?
JS: So he was a hundred percent right, and I'll build on an experience I had about five years ago. I had the honor and privilege of spending a night out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean on the USS Theodore Roosevelt. And it occurred to me in that experience that for so many Americans, there are two pathways to really transform you and your own and your family's potential financial trajectory, and it's higher education and the military. Those are the two fundamental, transformative institutions in this country.
And it's disappointing obviously, that the impact that higher ed has on people isn't fully appreciated. I think we in higher ed have to own some of that responsibility. We're not known for being an industry that transforms quickly. And in that spirit, I think there's still a lot of, our industry has not kept up with your industry. The mechanisms for communication and information sharing have been overhauled and overhauled again in the last 30 years.
And I think we have sort of rested on our laurels and said, "Well, of course everyone understands how impactful we are." And this is a world where you've got to communicate your message and we do need to think forward about how we continue to be at the forefront of meeting societal needs. What are the needs of today's youth? But also today's returning learner, what we call non-traditional learners, is the euphemism for college students that aren't between 18 and 21. How do we really make sure that we are carrying forward with our mission in the way that the mission needs to be viewed in the current context, and then share that message through people like you and through these types of venues? But really through all of the communications channels that reach audiences.
PZ: There are many who hope you'll usher in an era of change within CU. That includes faculty and staff who have long advocated for higher wages and better working conditions, both prospective and current students who say tuition is too high. And of course, I'm sure most everyone here will agree that the cost of living in Boulder is making a living here untenable. What do you have to say to those in the CU community who are struggling with those financial burdens?
JS: Those are all clearly genuine problems that I've certainly learned at the surface level in eight days, but are clearly serious issues. I mean, they even came up during some of the interview stages. Let me take them one at a time. So the tuition challenges, ubiquitous across the country. We do need as an institution to make sure that we are focusing on being good stewards of the resources we have, making sure that we focus our resources on our core mission, vision, values, our identity.
And at the same time, we also need to publicly recognize the fact that while we greatly appreciate the increase in higher ed funding for this coming year, Colorado's state is pretty close to the bottom in the country for state funding per in-state student. And that's a challenge that we work on of course, but putting myself in the shoes of state government, they obviously have a lot of different financial pressures that they have to deal with as well. But that's one of our core realities that we do have to deal with.
The faculty staff salary issue is also one that's pretty ubiquitous across the country. Our case may be, and this is an eight-day-old assessment, so a month from now, you may quote me on this and I'm like, "Yeah, I was wrong." It's a possibility. Our situation is, I think the faculty staff salary issue is clearly exacerbated by the cost of living in Boulder. Those aren't independent challenges. And so I have learned and am still learning more about ways that the campus has worked to address that. We've extended things like improving the tuition benefit for families. I think that just was announced recently. We're clearly aware of it and looking for ways to address it.
We have one of the big challenges of course, that drives cost of living is cost of housing. There's no doubt there's a housing shortage and an affordable housing shortage here in town. And I'm still learning about the multiple projects that the university itself is pursuing to develop more affordable housing in town. That takes time. It won't be overnight, but hopefully it'll be soon and CU South is a big first step for that. And so I do get the sense that everyone here is pretty excited that that's now moving forward after a lengthy process. But it is challenging and we're going to have to really work together in a strong town-gown partnership to see how we can continue to offer the amazing quality of life that Boulder offers, but also make it affordable and accessible to more people.
PZ: Many people at CU also say the university has a lot of work to do to attract and retain diverse students. I know several initiatives and programs have been launched to remedy that. The Center for African and African-American Studies, the hiring of Benny Shendo, Jr as the university's first vice chancellor for Native American Affairs. What have you done in the past to foster diversity, equity, and inclusion, and what do you plan to champion here at CU?
JS: We'd probably take more time than we have to go through everything that I've worked on, this has been a core tenant of my entire career in academia.
PZ: Give me a one minute pitch.
JS: All right, one minute pitch. Everywhere I've been, I have dramatically transformed the DEI space, not just in terms of demographic numbers, which is important, but fundamental underlying culture. One example, my successor as Dean of Engineering at Penn State was someone who I recruited to be the inaugural associate dean for equity inclusion in the College of Engineering. I lost track of how many other engineering colleges called her or me and said, "Can we have that job description? We're going to do it too." And now she's the dean and for one of the largest colleges of engineering in the United States to have an African-American woman dean is, she's not the only one, but you can count them on your fingers, I'm pretty sure.
And what you won't hear me talk too much about is the need to diversify our incoming students. You're going to hear me talking about needing to diversify our graduates. Because bringing in a more diverse student population, but not seeing them through to graduation, doesn't solve the problem.
So it's really like you mentioned it as recruit and retention. It is recruitment, retention and graduation, right? Making sure that they're having the same full experience of curricular and co-curricular and life success and excitement every step of the way. And that our graduating class is just as diverse as our incoming class. That's really the key is focusing on that.
And there's lots of data that shows obtaining a bachelor's degree in higher ed at a large R1 university is transformative to the person and their family's socioeconomic status. But there's also a lot of data that shows coming to college, getting some courses done, accruing debt and not getting a degree is transformative in the other direction. And so we need to make sure that we're not just focusing on recruiting students, but on graduating students.
PZ: A little more than one minute, but I appreciate it. When I spoke to your predecessor in May, he told me about the time he devoted towards university athletics. Here's what he told me.
Philip DiStefano: We can't ignore intercollegiate athletics. Right now, intercollegiate athletics is going through major, major changes and whether we're going to see intercollegiate athletics as it is today in the future, I'm not sure because of everything that's going on. I spend about 30 percent of my time on intercollegiate athletics, which when I first became chancellor and previously to my chancellorship, I doubt if the Chancellor spent more than 10 or 15 percent.
PZ: 30 percent of his time. Do you anticipate following in Chancellor DiStefano's footsteps on that?
JS: So I'm certainly not going to predict time distributions because I will say when you're at an institution for 25 years before you become provost and another 10 before you become chancellor, you come in with a different knowledge base about the institution that I have to obviously do some learning on.
I will say I have already spent significant time on intercollegiate athletics. Anybody, any university leadership with a D-I program is going to be doing that. I would, in a very nitpicky way, disagree with one thing that he said when he said that intercollegiate athletics might not be the same in the future. I think the only thing that would truly surprise me is if it was the same in the future. I mean, it is clearly going to be continuing to evolve. I don't think we're near the end of these evolutions, by any stroke. Where we end up, you could spend a day reading the various predictions. We have to obviously take it one step at a time. We have to remain fundamentally committed to our mission and our vision when we do that.
PZ: The University of Colorado system is one of the state's largest employers. CU Boulder has 8,000 faculty and staff and 7,600 student employees. The sustainability of CU from an economic standpoint is significant. What do you want people who don't attend CU or don't have an association with CU to know about your vision for the university moving forward?
JS: I want the people across Colorado to recognize that CU Boulder takes its role as a flagship university for the state very seriously. And by that, the concept of a flagship means that the flag is elevated so the rest of the fleet can see where you're going. That we're going to show that leadership that whether you are an employee or a CU student or not, we are focused on having impact on the day-to-day lives of the people of Colorado, people across the country and the people around the globe.
And that's true in terms of job creation from the outputs of our research. That's true in terms of really advancing sustainability and sustainable concepts for the entire population, for the entire species in a way that we want to ensure that the entire state thrives and that we are fundamentally one of the most important resources to the people of Colorado that they'll ever have, other than the natural resources of the state itself.
PZ: What do you look forward to the most as the new Chancellor of CU Boulder?
JS: First and foremost, I look forward to the students coming back, all the faculty being on campus. I relish the complaints about traffic and lack of parking because it means everybody's here. And so much of this role is fundamentally grounded in building strong relationships. And I want to spend some time really building relationships, not only with my immediate leadership team, which is of course is underway, but faculty and staff across the university and with the students. I want to get to know our students in meaningful ways.
So my fundamental job is to do whatever I can do to make sure that as an organization, we have the impact that we want to have. And that happens by making sure that our faculty, staff, and students can all meet their goals. I want our students not just to survive. I want our students to thrive. I want our faculty to thrive. And I can't fully do that until I get the chance to really get to know them and meet them. So really, that's the thing I'm most excited about. That and running with Ralphie.
PZ: Chancellor, thank you so much.
JS: Thank you, appreciate the time.
