A little over a week after Donald Trump’s election to the presidency, Colorado Governor Jared Polis has launched a nationwide initiative aimed at protecting state powers and democratic institutions.
Polis and fellow Democratic governor J.B. Pritzker of Illinois announced Wednesday they have co-founded a coalition called Governors Safeguarding Democracy.
Polis acknowledged Trump’s plans to reverse Democratic policies on social issues like same-sex marriage. But he denied the new project is a direct response to the Republican’s return to the White House.
“It’s about any administration in Washington,” he told Colorado Matters senior host Ryan Warner. “Obviously, we certainly would have some concerns with the incoming administration to protect democracy at the state level, but it really is not about a particular person.”
Instead, he said, the group will help states secure the strength and integrity of elections and of institutions such as state courts, which generally rule on constitutional issues such as abortion and same-sex marriage before the cases make their way through the federal justice system.
“We need to shore up our independent judiciary as a bulwark of protecting our rights and freedoms in our state just as other states do as well,” said Polis.
“In many ways, it’s a shift from the Civil Rights movement mentality of the 1960s, where we looked toward the federal government to protect the rights of minorities in states … that might have been, and were, discriminatory at the time.”
“Now the concern is very much flipped on its head. We want to make sure that states have the space, including Colorado, to protect every citizen, even when we face adversity from our own federal government.”
A statement from Polis and Pritzker introducing Safeguarding Our Democracy described it as a nonpartisan coalition. Polis said some former Republican governors sit on the advisory board but no current GOP officeholders are members.
Polis also spoke with Warner about Trump’s immigration policies and about reports that the president-elect will move the U.S. Space Command headquarters from Colorado Springs to Huntsville, Alabama.
Editor’s note: This interview transcript has been edited for length and clarity.
Ryan Warner: What specifically do you picture this group defending?
Gov. Jared Polis: It's really about defending our democratic institutions, the Constitution, its free and fair elections, independence of the state courts. There'll always be victories and losses on policy issues and some things that we agree or disagree with this administration or any administration. What's important is that our democracy is strong and continues to grow and serve the people of our country.
Warner: Defending from what and whom?
Gov. Polis: Well, again, democracy is always a process and having, for instance, a strong independent state court system. We have a State Supreme Court. There's been hundreds of appointments I've made, my predecessors have made to our state court. Shoring that up in terms of making sure the independent judiciary at the state level is adequately staffed. Many judges have had physical threats, and how do we make sure that we can adequately protect them, especially on cases that might be salient on national issues.
At the end of the day, most cases are decided at the state level, going up to the state Supreme Court, which has precedences that stand for Colorado. The Supreme Court can only hear a small fraction of overall cases, and while they're very high profile, there's a lot that makes a difference in the lives of everyday Coloradans in terms of protecting our rights and freedoms, including, for instance, our recently amended state constitution, which now protects reproductive rights for women that would be interpreted by our state Supreme Court.
Warner: I mean, the elephant in the room, and I use that phrase on purpose because we're talking about a GOP administration ascending to the White House, re-ascending. How much of this is about your perception of the incoming Trump administration? How much is your use of the term authoritarianism in relation to governor's safeguarding democracy is about this man in particular, this administration in particular?
Gov. Polis: Well, it's about any administration in Washington. Obviously, we certainly would have some concerns with the incoming administration to protect democracy at the state level, but it really is not about a particular person. It's about the need to always pursue perfection in our society and it is ongoing work that is occurring, should occur, and yes, is in many ways more urgent with potentially greater risks at the national level.
Warner: More urgent. Why more urgent? Help us understand how you see this.
Gov. Polis: Well, look, I think a lot of us are concerned by, for instance, the Supreme Court removing protections from certain freedoms that had been in precedent, for instance, with the repeal of Roe v. Wade. And of course, we worry about Obergefell v. Hodges and the right to marry who you love, and that's why Colorado voters acted proactively and put that in our state constitution. But interpreting freedoms and protections in our state constitution would fall to the state Supreme Court.
And so we need to shore up our independent judiciary as a bulwark of protecting our rights and freedoms in our state just as other states do as well. In many ways, it's a shift from the Civil Rights movement mentality of the 1960s where we look towards the federal government to protect the rights of minorities in states against state policies that might've been, and were, discriminatory at the time. Now, the concern is very much flipped on its head. We want to make sure that states have the space, including Colorado, to protect the rights of every citizen, even when we face adversity from our own federal government.
Warner: So are you describing a generational shift from reliance on the federal government for certain protections to a distribution of that to the states?
Gov. Polis: It's happening whether we like it or not. I mean, that's just the facts on the ground. It’s occurring. The overturning of Roe v. Wade was a perfect example of that, and it's happened in a number of different areas. So yes, I suppose you could bury your head in the sand and say, “We don't want it to happen. It's not happening,” but it is happening. And absolutely that calls on states to play a greater role protecting our freedoms and civil rights.
Warner: You and Illinois Democratic Governor JB Pritzker put this group together, which is described as a nonpartisan coalition. What other governors have joined and are there any Republicans?
Gov. Polis: So there are, and this is why we tend to avoid anything overtly partisan. That's why it's not part of Democratic Governors Association. And there are former Republican governors and elected officials that are on the advisory board, and I hope, I truly hope that there's at least one or two or three Republican governors that see some value in this organization as well. Certainly, the doors are open to them and we hope to have some takers. In the meantime, this will play a working role coordinating with governors who choose to be part of all or some of it. Again, no governor has to take everything that is relevant to them and different states have different laws. But what's needed is this kind of effort of a toolbox that supports developing responses, reinforcing key institutions, and advancing a strong proactive strategy around this very important issue of protecting democracy.
Warner: What are the tools? I mean, is it lawsuits? Is it fundraising? Is this just a platform for messaging?
Gov. Polis: Well, you mentioned the courts, obviously redressing the courts is one of those, looking at our state legal authority that governors have and that legislatures have under their statutes is another. Looking to Congress is another. So I mean, we're not limiting ourselves to one form of recourse. I think we want to make sure we're aware of on any particular threat or danger, the full list of alternatives that we have as governors to be able to fight for our people of our states.
Warner: While Donald Trump lost in Colorado, 1.3 million Coloradans voted for him. And they hear this and perhaps think the governor seems to be joining the Trump resistance. Walk in their shoes for me. What should they make of this, of the timing of this, just as Mr. Trump is assembling his cabinet, just as we're learning about potential majorities in Congress?
Gov. Polis: Well, look at the very same election, Colorado voters overwhelmingly enshrined the right to reproductive choice in our state constitution, abolished the definition of same-sex marriage in our state constitution by even greater margins than Kamala Harris won Colorado. So I think people understand that defending the Constitution and the laws of Colorado is a critical role that the governor has. It's my sworn duty to uphold.
Warner: In what ways do you think you can work with the Trump administration on issues that have been important to you in Colorado? Be it saving people money, be it healthcare, etc.?
Gov. Polis: Well, on healthcare, for instance, we have a pending application for re-importation of prescription drugs from Canada. Both Colorado and Florida are the two states that have filed. That's been very slow-going with the Biden administration and the FDA, and they still haven't approved it. I hope that either Biden approves it going out the door or that the new incoming administration and the new FDA commissioner promptly grant the waiver that allows us to save Coloradans money by importing prescription drugs.
Another effort that President Biden worked on, didn't get very far, was permitting reform. And I'm hopeful that the new administration will continue that work around making it easier for renewable energy projects, for transmission across our public lands, and when needed to expedite the NEPA (National Environmental Policy Act) process so we can get things built and improve the quality of life for our fellow Coloradans.
Warner: Have you spoken with the President-elect?
Gov. Polis: I haven't spoken with him, no.
Warner: Is that something you hope to do?
Gov. Polis: Of course. Of course, I'll be speaking with him. I issued my congratulations the day after the election and look forward to, of course, congratulating him in person and offering to work with him however we can to help make Colorado an even more amazing place.
Warner: He has appointed a border czar and doubled down on his commitment to mass deportations. During the campaign, there were false claims that the city of Aurora had been overtaken by a Venezuelan gang. Trump held a rally here, announced what he calls Operation Aurora and said if he was elected, he'd invoke the Alien Enemies Act of 1798. It allows a president to detain, relocate, or deport non-citizens who came from a country considered a wartime enemy. Will you cooperate with Operation Aurora?
Gov. Polis: Well, first of all, like everybody, we have no idea what Operation Aurora is or isn't. And what I've always said, we appreciate any federal assistance in apprehending and deporting people who have committed crimes and are a danger to Colorado, our fellow Coloradans. If there's any additional federal assistance in combating Venezuelan gangs and quickly incarcerating or detaining or deporting people who commit crimes like robberies, we're excited to have that help. But obviously, the fear is he's talking about going after law-abiding Coloradans who might've lived here for 20, 30 years, who are working as construction workers or in ag or in the hospitality industry. And obviously, it would devastate our economy and our society if someone were to come in and forcibly take our neighbors away from us.
Warner: So I think I hear you saying, if someone is in the category of having crossed the border illegally and has been here for some time, and is gainfully employed, that's not someone you'd like to see deported from Colorado?
Gov. Polis: Well, they're an important part of our state, of course. So I mean, we have Dreamers that have been here since they were four years old who were brought here. We have people that have made their lives here, had their families here, families of what we call mixed status. It may be husband, wife, one of them's documented, one of them's not. The kids were born here, they're Americans. I mean, we shouldn't be tearing apart these de facto American families. The only reason that the other member of the family isn't fully papered and credentialed is because the failure of Congress to secure our border and deliver comprehensive immigration reform. And obviously executive actions like the Dreamer Act have given provisional work permits to many Coloradans. We're very grateful for it, but it didn't give permanent status because only Congress can do that.
Warner: Before leaving office in 2020, President Trump had decided that the U.S. Space Command headquarters should move from Colorado Springs to Alabama. President Joe Biden reversed that. This week an Alabama congressman predicted that Trump will follow through and move the command south. Will you lobby to keep it?
Gov. Polis: I have and I will. It was already the subject of my very first conversations when I congratulated Congressman-elect (Jeff) Crank and Congressman-elect (Jeff) Hurd and Congressman-elect (Gabe) Evans.
Warner: These are the new faces in Congress, Republican faces from Colorado in our delegation.
Gov. Polis: Yes, and they've all made it a priority to fight to keep Space Command here. More importantly, as Americans, we should do what maximizes our defense preparedness and the fulfillment of the mission of Space Command. And several groups have looked at it through the military and concluded that far and away our military preparedness is maximized by keeping the command in Colorado Springs versus unseating them and trying to move them to another location which would make America weaker and worsen our readiness.
Warner: That would be a disruption, you're saying?
Gov. Polis: It'd be an incredible disruption for purely political purposes, which I'm confident that both Republicans and Democrats in Colorado will stand with the U.S. military to oppose the relocation of the Space Command.
Warner: Let's talk for a moment about the election itself and the fact that President-elect Trump did better nationally than in 2016 or 2020, this time winning the popular vote. Pretty much every prominent Democrat has a theory as to why their party lost here in Colorado. Democrats lost a U.S. House seat. Their numbers in the statehouse shrank, albeit slightly. What is your post-mort, Governor Polis?
Gov. Polis: Well, look, I mean it's a free and fair election and we are obviously excited to work with any president in Washington. I mean, I think there's always candidates that get the message out that people want to hear, and there's candidates that fall short in that regard. So I mean, again, I was excited to vote for Kamala Harris. I've known her, I've worked with her. I think she would've been a terrific president and we won't have the opportunity to do that. And so instead we'll be working with President-elect Trump.
Warner: You in fact, were something of a surrogate for Kamala Harris. So is this a failure of the candidate? Is it a failure of the party? Is it a failure of the messaging? I want you to put your Democratic Party hat on as a leader in the party in Colorado and nationally and tell me what the lesson is strategy-wise.
Gov. Polis: I've always, in my elections where I run for office, I've always focused on how we can reduce costs and save people money. We've cut the income tax three times under my time as governor, twice at the ballot box, once through the legislature.
Warner: Well, this is starting to sound like your stump speech for president.
Gov. Polis: Well, for governor of Colorado is what I ... These are the things that we've done. So I mean, that's just what we focus on and what we did, and I'm proud of it. And there's a lot more work ahead because the truth is costs are too high, and we focus on housing and removing barriers to new homes being built, especially starter homes, and ways that people can buy homes in the $200,000s and $300,000s instead of having to wait their whole lives or live their whole lives as a renter.
Warner: You seem hesitant to Monday morning quarterback this.
Gov. Polis: Well, of course. I'm not a pundit. I'm in the arena. I'm a governor, so I'm not the person you want to talk to about punditry. I left a message for the vice president's husband, Doug Emhoff, after the election. I just said a simple thank you. I mean, they don't need lecturers. I just said thanks for putting your life on the line and doing this the last few months. I mean, you guys put your all into it. I appreciate Kamala and Doug. I appreciate my friend Tim Walz. They did their best, and I'm appreciative of the work that they did running for president and vice president.
Warner: Are you surprised at the outcome?
Gov. Polis: Well, yes, in a way. I mean, I think it was not the same shock (as) when Hillary Clinton lost because the polls all showed her winning. I mean, we had this discussion in our family with our kids going into the election. I said, "Look, there's a one-third chance that Trump wins all the swing states, one-third chance Kamala Harris wins all the swing states, and one-third chance that it's as close as it seems to be, and we don't know for many days."
Sure, we knew there was a one-third chance that what happened would happen. That's just because I read Nate Silver, and I look at the polls. I mean, I don't have any special knowledge that I bring to that. But no, it wasn't a great surprise. But we knew it was a roll of the dice, and obviously I'm disappointed with the outcome.
Warner: Voters’ trust in elections is becoming increasingly shaky over the last few years, in large part because of lies from Donald Trump that the 2020 election was stolen. Just days before this election, it emerged that Colorado's Democratic Secretary of State's office had posted voting machine passwords from 34 counties online in a hidden tab. They'd been online since June, and the state removed them in late October after a vendor alerted them. Governor, your office helped update those passwords on voting machines in impacted counties. Secretary of State Jena Griswold noted several layers of security are in place and said that the election was secure. Now, she's elected by voters, but I want to know if you have confidence in Jena Griswold?
Gov. Polis: Well, as you said, she is elected by voters and we have many county clerks who directly administer the elections across the state along with the Secretary of State. When we were made aware of this, we, of course, offered our state resources, which generally involved aircraft, getting people to remote areas of the state quickly, including trained state personnel who had underground background checks, to make sure that the passwords were changed.
I do agree with the assessment that there was no compromise of the election system because those passwords alone were not enough to do that. They also needed a site-based password along with physical access in a badged area that also has security footage. So the election was not compromised, the passwords were changed.
And of course, there'll be an independent investigation into this, I believe both through the Denver DA's office as well as by a law firm that's been retained to do that work.
Warner: By the Secretary of State. Do you have confidence in Jena Griswold?
Gov. Polis: Well, again, I don't know, like everybody, exactly what happened. So like every Coloradan, I look forward to seeing exactly what happened. Do I think that somehow Jena Griswold went in and posted passwords? No, of course I don't believe that. I don't think anybody's alleged that. It sounds like it was the work of a former employee. Exactly why and how they were able to do that is what me and many Coloradans want to find out.
Warner: There's more you want to know, in short.
Gov. Polis: And also to prevent not only this problem, but other problems from occurring in future elections.
Warner: I want to talk about some of the ballot issues that Colorado voters approved, starting with a pair of measures dealing with law enforcement and criminal sentencing.
One requires the legislature to provide $350 million to local governments for hiring, recruiting and retaining officers. Another requires longer minimum sentences for violent crimes. Those inmates must serve at least 85 percent of their original sentences instead of the current 75 percent.
Governor you ran on making Colorado safer. Did voters just leapfrog you and send a message that you're not moving the needle quickly enough on this?
Gov. Polis: Well, I was very supportive of the initiative to provide more funding to law enforcement. So I mean, I think the ballot box was the only place we could get that. And yes, I'm confident that, thanks to the action of the voters, we will be able to better fund law enforcement across the state.
The other initiative, I had mixed feelings on. I wasn't taking a position for or against. I honestly don't remember how I voted at this point. It doesn't affect my governorship, by the way – nothing has any effect for seven, 10 years from now, so it's really in the future when it has an effect.
And, you know, both positive and negative. I mean, the positive is, of course, you want to make sure that people know that people serve a large part of their sentence, but it also reduces judicial discretion. And judges play an important role in figuring out exactly what happened and what the particulars were and rewarding good behavior in prison and also penalizing bad behavior in prison. So I don't think that will impact crime much one way or the other, honestly. That's why I wasn't passionate for or against it. But certainly I'm excited by the additional resources for law enforcement.
Warner: Well, I'm fascinated by your view of the $350 million because you said the ballot box was basically the only way to do that. Is that because you sense a reluctant Democratic majority in the legislature to make that kind of investment in law enforcement?
Gov. Polis: Well, I mean it takes the people to clearly establish this as a priority and put it in law. That's why I supported it. No, I don't think through a budget process this year, which we're going through now, in which there's cuts to many other areas, I'd highly doubt that the legislature would put anything close to that into law enforcement. Incidentally, it's not $350 million in one year.
Warner: No.
Gov. Polis: It's a fund of $350 million that we fund in one year, one time, and then we spend across several years so the law enforcement can hire and retain police better.
Warner: You now chair the National Governors Association, and you've made education your key priority for that organization. What specifically do you want governors to accomplish or focus on?
Gov. Polis: Much of my career has been about education. And you might know, I started several charter schools, I served on the State Board of Education for six years, (and) in Congress I served on the education committee. That's really been a big part of my journey to public service has been the goal of making sure that students are prepared for success.
My initiative is “Let's Get Ready,” preparing students for success, and it's let's get ready at two levels. How do we make sure that learners, students, people who graduate high school are ready for success in the job market with a meaningful skill that allows them to succeed? And also let's get ready for our economy. How do we make sure that companies are able to hire people with the skills they need here in our state, continue to grow and succeed?
Education is the single biggest line item of the state budget, and that's the case for pretty much every state. It's a big part of our state budget. We want to make sure we're getting the outcomes that best serve the students in elementary, middle, and high school.
And yes, we're supportive of efforts to make sure kids are learning in math and reading as they should, and writing, but that alone doesn't mean that they're prepared for success in today's and tomorrow's job market. So we're asking the question and holding a series of events, including here in Colorado this week – what metrics should we be looking at to make sure we can expand and replicate what best prepares kids for success and change or modify what isn't working to further power our economy and to provide opportunity to more Colorado and American families.
Warner: And in a way, it sounds like, develop a kit that could be implemented across the country of best practices. If the Department of Education on a federal level is eliminated under a Trump administration, does that make your efforts more complicated?
Gov. Polis: That's another one of those things like this Project Aurora that we just don't know what that means. The Department of Education mostly distributes formulaic money to school districts, Title I being their largest program. And obviously, yes –
Warner: Pell Grants.
Gov. Polis: Pell Grants for higher ed, absolutely. So somebody administers those, so I don't think Republicans are talking about abolishing those. Do they want somebody else to administer them? Do they want to combine the Department of Ed with another department? I have no idea. Obviously, the funding for free and reduced-lunch kids, for at-risk kids, for college access through Pell and federal student loans, these are very important linchpins of educational access in our country, and I hope that they continue and get improved.
